Erin: Welcome to Hotter Than Ever, where we uncover the unconscious rules we've been following. We break those rules, and we find a new path to being freer, happier, sexier, and more self expressed. I'm your host, Erin Keating. Newcomers to the podcast welcome. You are in the right place for conversations about all things related to pleasure, agency, change, and empowerment over the magical age of 40 when all things get better. That is my philosophy. I am so happy to have you here. And to my loyal, longtime listeners, I am so, so glad you're back. You are looking beautiful and rested and relaxed. I'm so glad to see you've taken a little bit of time to take care of yourself in the middle of your crazy lives.
Today, I talk to Molly R. Stern. She is a makeup artist to the stars whose work can be seen on a list faces across magazine covers, editorial spreads, red carpets, films, and tv shows. She was awarded the Makeup Artist of the year at the prestigious Hollywood Style Awards and her makeup on the HBO series big little lies, which I know a lot of you have seen that work was nominated twice for an Emmy, a couture piece of her cult apparel line. I'm sorry, who has a cult apparel line? Molly R. Stern does.
It's called Mrs. It was selected for the Goddess exhibition at the Costume Institute of the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and her makeup for the Disney film a Wrinkle in time was immortalized in a special line of Barbie dolls from Mattel. She also has a line of jewelry that has a hashtag love yourself on it, which is such a great message. And she does that with the brand. Sarah Chloe. You know, we have a wonderful, inspiring, and tender conversation about aging and self love and how we talk to ourselves. She says that all of her celebrity clients are really self critical, and I hated hearing that. Part of me was like, wait, you're on top of the world.
Shouldn't you be saying nice things to yourself? No, as a matter of fact, they are self critical, just like we are, just like we are all trying not to be at this point in our lives. Part of Molly's gift is that she helps her clients to feel like they look like the best version of themselves. We talk about what it's like to choose to age without medical intervention in this day and age in Hollywood and how beauty standards are different around the world and have also changed throughout history. We talk about how the women in our families have handled beauty and aging and why it's so important to be honest about how we're feeling in every corner of our lives, even if that causes us to have to make uncomfortable changes. All right, let's get hotter than ever.
Molly R. Stern, welcome to hotter than ever.
Molly: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Erin. I'm honored to be here.
Erin: I am so happy to have you here. I like looking at your portfolio and all the famous faces that you have made, even more beautiful than they come in their natural form. I am really blown away by what you do and the level to which you have ascended in your career. And what I perceive about you is that you are a very down to earth person, but you have been thriving in this.
Molly: I'm not.
Erin: You're not. You're very pretentious, superficial. Okay.
Molly: I'm a fucking bitch.
Erin: That's how she succeeds in Hollywood.
Molly: That's right. I scratch everyone's eyes out on the way up.
Erin: What I perceive is that you're down to earth. And you, you could tell me I'm totally wrong about that. But I wonder how someone like you, who seems very grounded and, you know, family, kids and dogs and a life and all of those things here in LA, like, how did you make your way to this profession? Is this something you always wanted to do?
Molly: I was definitely very interested in it as a young girl. I loved fashion and beauty. You know, I grew up in the eighties, and I just was obsessed with Cindy Crawford and all the supermodels.
Erin: Paulina Poetskova, for me, Paulina Porcova, Kelly Ireland.
Molly: I mean, I was like, you know, was just into all of those girls and then fell in love with Italian Vogue and Pat McGrath's amazing makeup artistry and Stephen Maisel's incredible photography. And I just became kind of obsessed with fashion and beauty. And it was also a way that I exercise my own self expression through the way I dressed and through changing my hair color all the time and wearing different color makeup, etcetera. And so I was very young. I was 16 when I got my first job as a makeup artist or with a makeup brand, and I kind of just stuck with it. And now it's over 30 years later, and I pinch myself regularly that I get to work with the people that I get to work with and that my career trajectory is what it has been. I'm truly humbled and grateful and in awe of the opportunities and experiences that I've had in my life.
Erin: Oh, God, that's such a cool. It's so cool. I mean, you were so young.
Molly: I was so young, and I just, I wasn't a great student. So going to college was not really my path. And I got really lucky and I kind of found my people and I trained under them and I studied under them, and I. My first job was with a japanese makeup brand called Shuemura, which they don't sell in the US anymore. But at the time, it was this beautiful store, and it was just so inspiring to be in there. And it was a full range of color and a full range of texture and massive amounts of brushes. And so the creative seeker inside of me really found a home there and then that all of that combined with painting people's faces and connecting with human beings and making people feel good about themselves just won me over. And I've been dedicated to it for this amount of time because of that.
Erin: That's so great. We paint a picture of your self expression at age 16. Like, what did you look like? What were you wearing? What was your hair like? Because I dressed insane at that age.
Molly: I was like a wannabe punk rocker.
Erin: Oh, me too. Me too. Private school punk rocker, you know?
Molly: Yeah, private school, exactly. Private school punk rocker. Exactly. So I wore a lot of vintage dresses and my hair was a lot of different colors from, like, bleach blonde to, you know, electric red. I wore combat boots, doc Martens that I afforded because I stole cash money from my parents, which I just recently told my children about regularly. I would, like, go and dip into their horrible, just horrible. I admitted it to my parents, too, but that's why I was like, how did you think I had so many pairs of Doc Martens? Like, you weren't buying them for me.
Erin: Maybe they didn't know how expensive they were.
Molly: I guess they didn't. I guess they didn't.
Erin: That's amazing. I just love, I love teenage self expression. I think it's so magical once they get past the conformist middle school years and they start to feel into themselves.
Molly: Yes, yes. My youngest is about to embark on her high school journey, and I am so excited for her.
Erin: So great. Mine are heading into 8th, so I'm still in deep conformity.
Molly: Yes, yes. We are thrilled to be graduating out of that.
Erin: So good. So good. So your career has evolved. Do you feel like you have reinvented it or it has sort of rolled along and naturally sort of taken its own path?
Molly: Kind of, yes to both. I've had moments in my creative life that have transformed and evolved into something totally different, like the clothing line, which was, you know, same principles as makeup artistry, but different medium. And then just like, wonderful opportunities, like working with Sarah, Chloe and doing the love yourself collection was a result of, you know, where social media naturally took me and kind of finding a place where I felt like I could sit and be comfortable and find my voice through social media because I'm 52. So the first majority of my career was like, we don't talk about anything we do behind the scenes.
Erin: Right.
Molly: It's like we never pull back the curtain and show you the wonderful wizard. You know, it's all smokes and mirrors. And then it transformed into becoming. We're gonna show you every single thing. And she had five hairs under her armpit that we waxed out, and here they are. You know, it was like a huge transition. And I first was like, I will never be on social media. And then, of course, it was like, well, then you're literally a dinosaur, so.
Erin: You literally don't exist.
Molly: You literally are extinct. And I was like, oh, I want to still exist.
Erin: So, yeah, it is such a sea change from this sort of polished image forward to this sort of movement towards, quote unquote, authenticity. Right. Which I put in quotes because it is still, you know, the highlights of your day, and it's curated and it's specifically targeted, and everything in social media is marketing for one idea or another.
Molly: Absolutely. And it's all still curated and, you know, approved before.
Erin: Right.
Molly: Being put out there.
Erin: Right.
Molly: But with this guys that, like, look, we're telling you the truth, and we're showing you the, you know, what's going.
Erin: It has the feel of truth. Right. But obviously it's not. But it's very hard, psychologically to distinguish from what's actually true and what's a facsimile of truth.
Molly: I think it's almost completely impossible. And I feel extremely proud to be such a strong card carrying member of the beauty community. But I also carry quite a bit of guilt because I'm part of this false idea of perfection. I'm, like, a major player in this false idea of perfection. I think social media only kind of thickens the slices of cake there. I remember early on when social media and I would post something of myself, and someone was like, you look amazing. I'd be like, oh, it's the filter, baby. But, like, now people don't even add that detail. It's just part of it, right? The minute you turn on your camera, it's already filtered, right?
Erin: Absolutely. Then, thank God.
Molly: But that's, like, I. My favorite quote, I think, is from Tina Fey, where she was like, I hate Botox and I hate plastic surgery, and I hate unless it's me on the COVID of a magazine, in which case I love all.
Erin: Retouching.
Molly: Retouching. Right. That's what she was talking about.
Erin: Yeah. I mean, amazing. Because that is the truth. Right. We all want to look our best. It's a moving target. And as we age, you know, that becomes a bigger conversation because there is this notion out there in the culture that anti aging is a thing like it isn't. There is no age.
Erin: Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
Molly: So how has sort of the alternative is actually much worse than aging, right.
Erin: Dying.
Molly: Yeah. Yeah. That's the. That is the opposite of aging.
Erin: Yeah. You're not going to stay still. That's not how it works.
Molly: That's right.
Erin: Yeah. Yeah. So how has, how has your personal experience of aging in the beauty industry been for you?
Molly: That's a great question. It's up and down and all around, I think. I personally have not gone the nip tuck needle route yet. Who knows what lies ahead? But. So I'm often the outlier in my community because pretty much everybody is doing something. Some people, it's just lasers at a facial. Some people are going much further than that, but everybody is definitely dipping their toe into. I have had a couple laser facials, but, yeah, sometimes I feel like, oh, I'm going to be the oldest person in Hollywood because I'm kind of choosing to see what it actually looks like to age and keep myself healthy in other ways, but not actually conform to the idea that I have to stretch it back or fill it up.
Erin: You and Frances McDormand.
Molly: Yeah. Who I worship.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: She's a goddess.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: Yeah. And I think it's. It kind of taps into that middle school thing that you're talking about of, you know, almost feeling like if I don't do this, I'm not cool, I'm not conforming. I'm not with the cool kids. I can't really. I won't fit in. I won't have anything to say in the conversations. So just like in middle school, for, you know, kids to kind of find their own energetic boundary, it takes that kind of bravery, I think, to age and not feel like you have to do what everybody else is doing but do what feels right for you.
Erin: Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of judgment about it before I moved to LA and before I hit 45. And then, you know, I started to do some little things here and there, Botox and a little bit of filler. And, you know, friends say to me, don't do too much, like I'm not going to. I'm not going to. I know what it looks like. I know what too much looks like, and it's very scary. But I also understand body dysmorphia, and I also understand the pressure a lot of women feel around remaining youthful and conforming to their culture's ideals.
And I think also the higher status you are, the wealthier you are, the more, the more that is the cultural norm where you can afford it. Why wouldn't you? But I also think the culture conspires to keep us focused on our outsides, because if we really felt our feelings, we would burn the whole fucking thing down.
Molly: Well, I mean, of course, how are you going to monetize your insides, right? I mean, other than, like, vitamins and maybe some workout gear. But, like, truly true feelings, there's no monetization of that. We're definitely living through some wild, wild times. It's just incredible as we evolve as human beings and technology and all the things that are available to us, but it is also unchartered territory. And we don't know what the long term effects of any of this. No experience we're all having together is, which I guess every generation goes like, well, what's the long term effect of this? But there's definitely a dark side to the anti aging or the thin is in or the ozempic era or all of those things. I love to tell the story that my grandmother, may she rest in peace, she had two full facelifts in her lifetime. And we, when she passed at like 86 years old, she looked like an old lady.
She didn't look like a 30 year old on the table. She looked like an old lady. And I remember thinking at that time, like, oh, all the money and all the surgery and all the recovery that she had to go through. Like, in the end, she's just my granny laying on a, you know, laying on a bed looking, I mean, I put a little blush on her when she passed because I was like, she would be horrified if anybody saw her looking like this.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: You know, she looked like an old lady.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: And I remember at that time, it really affected me. I was like, oh, right. Like, what we think matters so much in the moment doesn't necessarily change who we are in the long run. And that just goes back to the inside, and that's where the real work should be.
Erin: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Molly: Focused on, yeah.
Erin: What do your, you know, the celebrities that you work with who are huge, from Reese Witherspoon to Maya Rudolph and please. I would like to be best friends with Maya Rudolph. I'm, like, such the biggest fan. It's insane how much of a fan I am.
Molly: Every bit of fandom is worth it. She's all of that and a baked potato.
Erin: Incredible.
Molly: She's amazing.
Erin: How are they talking about aging? They must feel so much pressure around their appearance and continuing to be out there in a culture that. That either wants to disappear us after a certain age or put us in various uncomfortable boxes. How are they doing? How are the celebrities doing?
Molly: The celebs, they're just like us. You know, they're processing all the same things. The epidemic that I have seen in Hollywood and fashion is the commonality amongst every single woman I've ever met and worked with, which is super harsh, negative self talk and self perception. The dysmorphia that you touched on for a second, I have never met one. Not the most famous, not the most rich, not the most award winning, not the skinniest, not the heaviest. Doesn't matter. Everyone is freaking mean to themselves. Everyone looks through this lens of, like, ugh, I look so old.
I look 110. Oh, I look so fat. Oh, I look. My. The bags under my eyes are so. Oh, my lips are so thin. Oh, my hair looks like it's. My hair's too full.
Whatever you can imagine, every woman I've ever met has at least a moment of that in their day. And it's like, to me, that's the shift that needs to happen, is how we treat ourselves and how we view ourselves. And to remember that I've talked about this before, too, of, like, when you open your eyes in the morning, you're seeing the world from the inside out of.
Erin: Right.
Molly: So we have no real, true ability to have perspective on what the world sees from the outside in.
Erin: No, that's right. We can't see it.
Molly: We can't see it because we can only see it from our inside perspective, which, again, I mean, I beat the dead horse. It's like how you feel and how you feel on the inside and how you view yourself on the inside and from the inside is a huge game changer on how we perceive ourselves in the world and how we. How we project ourselves into the world.
Erin: It breaks my heart that these women who are icons, who are admired for a huge range of talents, not just their appearance, but all of their abilities, that they are talking themselves down in their heads.
Molly: I mean, how can they not? I know it's that everyone compares themselves to everyone else. Everyone thinks that the grass is always greener. And even the most evolved or empowered self loving. Self loving, exactly. Even the most empowered self loving has that moment where they're comparing themselves because our culture pins us against each other and wants us to compare ourselves. Right. All the advertising, if you don't, this will make you better. This will make you skinnier. This will make you happier. This will make your skin look more youthful. All these things is coming from a space of I as the viewer, lacking something.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: And it's their marketing to the rich and famous just as much as they're marketing to the poor and needy.
Erin: No, it's true. It's true. None of us is immune from those messages that are pretty unrelenting.
Molly: Well, that's where you really see our humanity.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: And the expression stars are just like us. They really are. If they've had too much soy sauce the night before and they're bloated and can't fit into their outfit, they're bummed just like we are.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: You know what I mean?
Erin: Yeah, definitely. So when you're doing someone's makeup other than to make them look gorgeous, which they already have a pretty good foundation on.
Molly: Absolutely.
Erin: What is your goal? Like, how do you make a decision about a certain look or what you do for a person? Is it collaborative? That's seven questions all at once. What's your goal?
Molly: Yeah, I love it. I mean, my goal is always to make someone feel good about themselves. That is what I am there for. I kind of a long time ago let go of that. This was where I got my creative rocks off. Like, it's. I don't have an agenda. When I walk in the room, I'm very much like, I try to meet everybody where they're at.
What are you looking to feel like today? What are you looking to enhance? You know, I might throw out some suggestions, but I'm trying really hard not to be married to any idea of what I want them to look like, because it's not about me, it's about them, and it's about them feeling great.
Erin: Right.
Molly: And getting out there and doing whatever. Whether they're playing a character, if I'm working on a show, or if they're playing the character of themselves to promote something and be on a red carpet, my job is to be there and support them and empower them and try to make them, like, the best compliment I can ever get is when someone looks in the mirror and goes, oh, I feel like I look like myself, but better.
Erin: Oh, that's awesome.
Molly: That's my favorite compliment. Then I'm like, all right, it's a good day at the office.
Erin: Yeah, definitely. Definitely. And it seems to me, and you alluded to this, that your work is founded on relationships.
Molly: Oh, yeah.
Erin: And the people that you work with come back to you again and again and again. And these people depend on their looks for their living. Like, why do you think you like, what is it that you do for them? That other than just being awesome to be around, which is part of being on a set or being in any of these behind the scenes roles, like, if you're awesome to be around, it really helps make the whole experience great. But what is it that you think that they come back for?
Molly: That's a very thoughtful question. I definitely think vibe and personality has a big part to do with it. As you've mentioned, I think I'm nurturing. I try to be nurturing and give them love, emotional and physical love, as far as stimulating their skin and massaging them a little bit. And then also, I think maybe one of the things that has brought me success is my ability to listen to what people are need or read the room and kind of understand what is necessary at any given time. Yeah, but it's also the hairdresser's energy, and it's also the stylist energy, and it's also the client's energy, and then.
Erin: Whoever else is in all the handlers and producers and signer offers.
Molly: That's right. But I do feel very proud and grateful that I've maintain so many long term relationships in my professional career that feels. And even people who I might not be working with anymore, I still love and adore, and vice versa. So that feels really special.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: I feel really lucky that my soul has gravitated towards those kinds of souls.
Erin: Yeah. Yeah. And there's nothing better than having a go to person if you have a need that's over and over again. Like, these artists have a need for makeup, and makeup artists, like, all the time. So if they have you in their Rolodex and I'm showing my age by using that word or your file, and if you have that in your Dewey decimal system, you know how, what a comfort it is, right, to know, like, you have a go to person who you actually trust.
Molly: I hope so. Yeah. I love to be that for people. And I'm also, I think it's good for people to mix it up, too, you know, and get a different energy and a different. How this person's gonna do your skin is different than how I'm gonna do your skin. And I think it's, there's so many wonderful, talented makeup artists out there that I encourage my clients to mix it up and try. I don't like the feeling of anyone belonging to me or me belonging to them. That's a recipe for disaster.
Erin: I feel like, yeah. And I think in an industry where that level of sort of possessiveness over talent is really rampant, ubiquitous, and there's people clutching at them all the time and people making money off them, frankly, all the time, like, that must be a relief that you're not like that.
Molly: I'm grateful that I'm, that. I mean, sure, sometimes I can get a little like, why didn't I get that job? Or, you know, whatever? I wanted to do that, but I also, I don't know how this came to be my mantra and something that I live by, but I really, truly believe what's meant for me. Can't miss me. So, yeah, that I feel deeply.
Erin: I've been thinking about that with regard to dating recently.
Molly: Oh, how's dating going? Fill me in.
Erin: Oh, you know, it's all over the place. It's all over the place. I had one, like, very nice date with someone, and then the second date was like, mehdeh. And, yeah, I made up a lot of stories about where the relationship was going to go between day one and day two. And then day two, I was like, yeah, I don't actually, this isn't. Huh.
Molly: Doesn't match my fantasy. I have a different chapter. I need to write about this, actually.
Erin: Yeah. Interesting how I just extrapolated.
Molly: Oh, the stories we tell.
Erin: Oh, it's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah, it's fun. Look, I really enjoyed dating in my fifties. I really enjoy sex in my fifties. I'm having more fun than I've ever had in every area of my life. Dating is a peculiar thing.
Molly: Yeah.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: I'm new to it, so I haven't really dipped my toe too heavily into it yet. Kind of at first was like, I'm gonna have 50 lovers. And then next breath I was, yeah. In my next breath, I was like, I don't ever want to talk or be with anyone ever again. So those are my two. That's where my pendulum is.
Erin: I think that makes total sense. I'm trying to do both.
Molly: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That sounds about right.
Erin: Yeah. Talk to me about, you know, our culture has a very sort of prescribed notion of what is beautiful, right. But every culture has a different story about beauty. And I don't know if you've sort of dipped your toe into the waters internationally or done any kind of comparative thinking about beauty here versus beauty elsewhere. But I'd be so curious for your thoughts on that.
Molly: Yeah, I mean, I'm deeply passionate about that subject and hope to harbor more conversations about that. I think it's fascinating. Cultural beauty standards, where they come from, how they affect us, are they grounded in anything real? Is it all the patriarchy? Where does it all come from? And I think it does change from people who grew up in a white christian society versus somebody who grew up in a tribe in Africa. There's a vastly different idea of what's beautiful. And also historically, even within our own culture, depending on who was king, made a difference on what was considered beautiful.
Erin: Is that true? It's like whoever the king got hot for. That's like the new beauty standard.
Molly: Yeah. It's like there was an emperor in Spain, I think, that had a lisp. And that's why still to this day, like, people will say, like, Barcelona. Barcelona, yeah, because they're mimicking. I'm not educated enough to know who the ruler was.
Erin: But that's like, the catalan accent.
Molly: That's right. Yeah, that's as far as my knowledge goes. I wish I had better information, but, yeah, it's in that realm. So whoever was in leadership at the time, I mean, there was also, like, queens of England, of course, that, you know, had different ideas of what was beautiful. But there was a time where women would tweeze out their hairline because a bigger forehead was in fashion. Orlando, have ribs removed so that they could, you know, tie their corset tighter. Or, you know, all throughout history, women have gone to extremes to fit into what society was deeming as hot.
Erin: Right. And we do it now. And we do it now. It's. This is just the incarnation in 2024 of, you know, what the ideal is.
Molly: That's right. And it's so. I mean, even in my lifetime, the ideal of what's considered beauty has changed. Beautiful has changed drastically from when, you know, like I was saying in the eighties, it was the supermodels, and then it was the nineties models. Kate Moss.
Erin: Right. The waif.
Molly: Yeah, the waif. And, you know, the more skinny and anorexic that you looked, that was the heroin chic thing.
Erin: Heroin chic, exactly.
Molly: Exactly. You know, and then now, obviously, like wildly curvaceous, the Kardashian era has brought in something that's also weirdly unattainable. And even though it might cover more shape than the heroin chic did, it's all just ideals that whatever we aren't, we're like, oh, I don't fit in. I don't look right. I don't look beautiful. I'm aspiring to be something that I'm not. I mean, I often say, like, supermodels are a great example. Like, there's eight of. There's eight human beings in the world that look like that.
Erin: Right? And those are they. Yes.
Molly: And those are they. That's right. That's it. There's those eight. And meanwhile, the rest of the world is, like, clawing at wanting to look like them. It's backwards.
Erin: It's very confusing.
Molly: It doesn't make a lot of sense. Instead of. I try to encourage people to look at their celebrities or models that they admire or love and see how can they be inspired by them. In the sense of, like, if Marilyn Monroe is your goddess and she's on the COVID of a magazine wearing a fabulous red dress, and you're like, oh, that looks amazing. You know, maybe it's like, how can I incorporate? Maybe I need a red handbag to be inspired by that feeling.
Erin: Right.
Molly: But tapping into that versus I need to try to be that.
Erin: Yeah, absolutely. What do you think about body positivity and size inclusion? Like, all of those things that. That I needed desperately as a teenage girl, I needed to see representations of a size 14 body, and I didn't. It was nowhere. And I really, really celebrate the fact that there are so many different shapes and sizes of women represented. However, I feel like the pendulum is now swinging back with weight loss drugs and all of these things that is making skinniness attainable for people who it wasn't attainable for. So I just wonder, like, do you think that body positivity is here to stay? Or if that is just another trend?
Molly: I love body positivity. I'm, like, all for it. Mostly because I love the idea of someone being able to look at themselves and go, I love you in the mirror. I hope it's here to stay. I don't know if it is or isn't. I feel like the weight loss drugs situation is completely out of hand. And in the sense of weight loss drugs being used to help someone who's really struggled their whole life with their weight and has a propensity to diabetes or something like that, then that's amazing that they've created a medicine that helps. It's when the person who's a size six but wants to be a size four thinks it's a good idea to take it, that's when I get a little worried about our choices that we're making there.
But I think it's wildly important for there to be representation in all areas when it comes to beauty and fashion. I really do think that's a really positive thing that we've seen in the last many years, and I hope it. I hope it's here to stay. But by the way, I don't think it helps that much.
Erin: Why not?
Molly: Because I have two daughters, and I think even though I've tried, my whole parenting life, which has been 19 years, has been like, I want you to feel healthy. I've always tried to promote being healthy, but I've seen and I've heard the horrors of my girls say, I hate myself. I look fat. I'm bloated. So it's like, just because there's a model that might look like whatever phase they're in, it doesn't take away, at least in my house. And, I mean, I pump in the self love, love yourself. Self love, love yourself. You know, I, like, push it through the vents.
I am, like, really pumping it in, and they still go through. And that's what I was saying earlier, is I've never met anyone. It doesn't matter what their situation is. That doesn't project some sort of self hating dialogue to themselves in the mirror. And it doesn't really matter that there's some gorgeous, curvaceous woman on the COVID of Vogue this month or not. I think it's really deeply steeped in our society and in our psyches. That thin is always better and younger is the goal. And it's. I don't mean to sound depressing about it. It's just. I don't know.
Erin: No, I think it's true. I think that's the truth. I think that's the message, and I think that's what sells product, and I think that's the culture we accept or rail against, you know, or have some kind of pendulum swing between. Like, part of me is like, fuck it. I'll look like what I want, and my body will be whatever. And part of me is like, well, I kind of want to be as close to the ideal as possible. Like, I go back and forth decade by decade with those conversations.
Molly: I mean, I'm so grateful for the celebration of, like, athletes and getting, like, to me, that range of, like, again, you know, healthy, working hard, ethics, self care, that type of. Those types of messaging, to me, feels like the break in the clouds of, like, okay, this is a little bit more relatable. And a little bit more maybe has long, longer standing positivity results than just. And I'm not insulting casting people of all different shapes and sizes and colors. And that should continue because maybe the two hand in hand will actually create real change.
Erin: Yeah. I think the thing about athletes is they do something, they achieve something with their body and their grit and their determination, and they aren't in the image making business. I think sponsorship business they are, but they are in the doing and accomplishing things business and not the appearing business.
Molly: Wow, that's really well put.
Erin: John Berger, ways of seeing a. Seeing, I read it probably freshman year of college. Men act and women appear. That's what, that was his thesis. He's an art historian. And it stuck with me my whole life because I really. I see it everywhere. I see it everywhere.
Molly: Yeah, that's really insightful. You should have a podcast.
Erin: Great idea. One thing that I don't see enough of in terms of representation is genuinely older women. Like Stacey London was on the podcast and she was like, occasionally there's the trend where it's like a year of the ladies in their fifties, or it's the year of the gray hair or it's the year of the whatever, but it doesn't stick. Right? There's this notion that, and I have some theories about invisibility and midlife and how it is a superpower that we can take advantage of. You know, they can't see you. You can do whatever you want.
Molly: Yeah, I love that. I love that.
Erin: But we aren't represented even in advertising. Even when products are being advertised to us or products are for us, they are not using us to sell those things to us.
Molly: Right. Yeah, it's, again, it's like sprinkles, sprinkles on top of the whole banana split or seven trays of cake for the masses. It's just the sprinkles. I feel really excited to be entering this age bracket, to be hopefully vocal about what it means to be a woman in my fifties and sixties and God willing, seventies, eighties, nineties till 120. Poo poo poo. All of us healthy and well. Please. I think we need more conversations about it.
We need more people recognizing. And that goes back to the cultural thing of, you know, in other cultures, aging is absolutely considered the most holy, beautiful thing that one can do because of course, it comes with wisdom. Hopefully, even if you're just being on the earth right for that amount of time, gives you some bit of wisdom just because of what you see, even if you don't engage in. Hopefully you're right that people choose to become more intelligent as they age, but I think we just need more people showing up, talking about it. Kind of like in that same scenario that I said about social media of, like, do we want to be extinct, or do we want to be a part of it and showing up for what is going on? And I think that there's more and more women that are empowered and realize, no, I'm not ready to lie down just because I'm over 50. I mean, unless someone really hot is on top of me, in which case I'm happy to lie down. But I do think age is changing, and what it means to be older is changing. And I think even the idea of being 90 and being old is not really.
I mean, I think our bodies kind of take us there unless we're purposeful about how to keep ourselves healthy and connected and feeling good about ourselves, because the decline is freaking steep.
Erin: Yes. Yes. My aunt passed away at the age of 93 a year ago. And she was a matriarch of our family, and she was traveling the world until the year before. She was so vital and so alive and so young. And you know what? It was because she cared about people. It was because she really prioritized the people in her life, and she would show up for all of us, for everything, and so generous and so opinionated. But absolutely the model of aging that, that I look at and go, well, if that's possible.
Molly: Did she have children?
Erin: She had three kids, and she had a bunch of grandkids, and she adopted some of her boyfriend's kids to be part of our family. And she was an extraordinary person. And I look at my jeans on my mom's side, and my mom's 80 and going strong, looking amazing, super fit, healthy. And I know, and I think, oh, gosh, like, I better do what I want to do now because if I am 52, like, if I've got 20 more, 25 more amazing years of productive life before I retire, which, who even knows if we'll be allowed, what do I want to do with that time? How long do you think you have left? Use the fucking time. And now at 50, you're in our fifties. And even for some people in their forties, our expertise has caught up with our confidence or bolstered our confidence. So, like, I was never this person in my twenties, thirties or forties.
Molly: Yeah.
Erin: And that's amazing. I mean, I.
Molly: That's so exciting and inspiring.
Erin: Right? Like, I imagine that you're your best self at this age.
Molly: Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm definitely going through major life changes, which is interesting and terrifying and thrilling all at the same time. But I think, yeah, I'm definitely. I definitely have never been this person. That. That is an accurate statement. I've never been who I am today and kind of felt as clear and focused as I feel.
And I feel that way when I look at myself also, like, I'll catch myself being that mean version. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, not today. Like, instead, I quickly switch it to, like, I love you. You know, I look at myself in the mirror, I'm like, you're cute. Or, you know, just positive reinforcement, the same thing that works on better on my kids or in a conflict and work any of those types of situations. Like, positive reinforcement is always more effective.
Erin: Works.
Molly: Yeah, always more effective. Exactly.
Erin: Totally.
Molly: And the same goes for how we view and treat ourselves.
Erin: Totally. I was headed out on a date the other night, and I caught myself in the mirror. I was like, you look fucking hot.
Molly: Yes, mama.
Erin: I have not before this phase of my life felt that way about myself. I wouldn't have given myself that, right. But I think now more than ever, it's like your attitude and your perspective dictates the quality of your life, period.
Molly: Well, you get it. You've seen it in all these other areas, right? Where, like, somebody you work with, if they're an asshole, you're like, I don't want to work with you. And I'm going to transfer so I don't have to. So it's the same idea of, like, if we are a creep to ourselves, it's like, it does. It just doesn't pay off.
Erin: It does not.
Molly: I think that does come with age where you're like, oh, the nicer I am, the healthier I am, the more focused and caring I am about my own personal growth and journey, the better off I am. I'm definitely in process of creating big change for myself. And it was scary to start really first even acknowledging and recognizing that my. How I was living was different than what was going on truly inside of me. And then being able to take this step and articulate that change and be an example to my kids and my friends and family that it's okay to change and it's okay to mix things up. And even if it feels uncomfortable or painful, it's still okay to do it.
Erin: Yeah.
Molly: And so that's been the. That's been what I've been working on, renegotiating.
Erin: That's huge. It's huge. Well, as a person who has renegotiated literally every part of my life in the last couple of years, I feel you. I feel the discomfort. I feel the awkwardness. I feel the newness of, like, feeling like, a newborn chick where you're just like, what is this world? Yeah, totally. You're kind of. You're outside your comfort zone, but I'm happy for you that you're making changes to serve yourself and to care for yourself.
Molly: Thanks, Erin. What do they say? If you're too comfortable, then it's time to move. Life is definitely about telling the truth. For me, life is about telling the truth and living authentically and honestly, even if it's hard.
Erin: Well, and I'll say for me, like, I lied a lot for a long time about being happy when I wasn't and that things were okay when they were not okay. And, you know, that I was, like, living my best life, and I was not living my best life. You know, I was surviving and I was thriving in my professional life and everything else was sucking. And you can make it look real good from the outside, you know?
Molly: Well, you just put a filter on it. Right?
Erin: Just put a filter on it.
Molly: Just put a filter on it. And then, yeah. It definitely feels right to be dissenting and to be showing that questioning is a real valid place to be in your life.
Erin: Yeah. Yeah.
Molly: Actually, a vital place to be in your life. Because if we're not questioning and really feeling our way through and analyzing our way through, am I truly happy? Am I truly? Being alive is such a freaking blessing. And there is so much magic to experience that if we are stuck in something or in a job or in a relationship or the way we view ourselves, if we're imprisoned by that, and it's keeping us from really appreciating how absolutely magical being alive is. And I'm here to wave my, like, time to change flag. Yeah, it's time to change.
Erin: Yeah. Oh, Molly, that's so beautiful. Thank you for that. And thanks for this honest and open conversation. I really, really enjoyed talking to you, Erin.
Molly: Thanks for having me. I hope. Did you have any specific beauty questions you wanted to ask?
Erin: Do you have tips to share with our audience?
Molly: I'm really into massage and self massage and stimulation and rubbing your face and touching your face. And whether it's with a gua sha or a tool or anything or just a gua sha is one of those. It's like a stone tool, and you can use it to stimulate your skin and get your fascia moving and it regenerates collagen in the skin. But even if you don't have a tool, your fingers and hands can be those tools just by, like, really getting in there and having a great serum or a great oil or moisturizer and just stimulating the skin, really connecting with yourself and, like, even three minutes a day will change the way you feel before you go to bed. When you wake up in the morning, just take an extra few minutes and massage your night cream in. But instead of just putting it on and walking away, take a few extra minutes of actually nurturing yourself. A little self love and self care right there is great.
Erin: Thank you for leaving us with those practical tips. Thank you so much and I'll talk to you soon.
Molly: Thank you, Erin.
Erin: Thanks for listening to Hotter Than Ever. If you loved this conversation, if it resonated with you, if it made you think about that one particular friend who you always talk to about beauty and self talk and body image, go ahead and send it to her. It's really easy to do. One thing that's so awesome about women is that we share resources with each other and things that we enjoy and that we think will light each other up.
For example, the hotter than ever podcast. Also, did you know there is a hotter than ever newsletter you can sign up for at hotterthanever substack.com? that's where I write and think a little more deeply about the people and conversations I have on this show. And it's where you can get more information about my guests. People are signing up every day. I would love to see your name in my inbox with a notification from Substack that says, says you have just signed up. Oh my God. I get excited every single time I get one of those.
Hotter than ever is produced by Erica Gerard and Podkit Productions. Our associate producer is Melody Carey. Music is by Chris Keating with vocals by Issa Fernandez. Enjoy your August hotties. It is still summer for a whole nother month, even though my kids are going back to school on August 20.
What the fuck? Anyway, I'm glad I'm not. I'm glad you're not. I hope you can still get out there and have some fun and adventures. And then you should go to hotter than ever pod on Instagram and write me a very detailed, salacious note about all the things you have gotten up to.
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