Erin: Welcome to Hotter Than Ever Listener Mail. I'm your host, Erin Keating. And in these new short weekly episodes, I give you my opinionated and not at all officially qualified feedback about the questions, problems, quandaries, and dilemmas that you have posed to me about love, sex, relationships, career, aging, ambition, divorce, and anything else that is on your mind today.
We have a text that was sent in from Curious. It says:
"I, too, essentially blew up my life when I was 50 in perimenopausal. My husband and I of 15 years, 20 together, are newly separated at the moment, focusing on our personal needs and navigating our own self discoveries. We've considered divorce, but because we have two tweens, we aren't rushing into that. We're still living together, though we travel individually and find ways to give each other space. We have opened up to seeing other people casually for the moment as we take this time for ourselves as I open my mind to getting on the apps and getting out there. Thanks to you."
Oh, God, please don't blame me for getting on the apps. I did not invent this world. I just live in it. I can't help but feel a little bit nervous. Curious says,
"I've had casual sex pre marriage, but I've never been on the apps before. This is all new territory for me. So my question is around your favorite topic, sex, and how to navigate it safely. I guess my question is, once you get to a point where you are finally meeting someone casually in person, do you flat out talk about sex or is it just assumed. And what about safe sex? Do you discuss that ahead of time or does that kill the chemistry? And lastly, as a woman, do you not worry about going to strangers residences? Where do you have sex? How can I feel both safe as a woman and sexually as I enter this new exploratory phase?"
Oh my god, Curious. Wow. First of all, congratulations on honoring what it is that you're actually feeling and experiencing, which is the desire to be separated from your husband. It's gotta be really hard to be living in the same house and navigating your own self discoveries together, but I admire people who try to do it in ways that will work for their families.
And I hope that's not too taxing for you or for the kids or for your husband to be trying to do this sort of all under one roof. One thing I want to ask you is you've had casual sex pre marriage, okay, that's 20 years ago. Right? 15 years ago. So where's your head around all this stuff? Are you looking for attention?
Are you looking for sexual fulfillment that you haven't gotten in the marriage? Are you looking to just feel wild and free and sexual? Think about what it is that you're really looking for when you go out onto the apps, when you make your dating profile, I recommend you just do a month on every app because they're all so different and it is truly bananas what is out there.
And it will help you get clearer about how people Talk at how men present themselves on the apps and how discourse starts to happen as you engage with people who are total strangers, who you do not know from Adam and. There's a lot to sort of feel out in the beginning. So I would just say, give yourself a little grace, curious, give yourself a little time.
Don't rush in this process. It will be a journey. It will be. an adventure. If you see it as an adventure and not a trial, you will have way more fun. If you don't take it too seriously, if you treat it lightly, you will have way more fun. So the first question is, once you get to a point where you're finally meeting someone casually in person, do you flat out talk about sex or is it just assumed?
This is really about where you are meeting people online because there are some apps where sex is on the table. It's a direct part of the conversation. So if you're on an app like Field, which is my favorite, or you are on Pure, which is a sexting app, or you are on FetLife, which is a kink and fetish app, there may be other more sex forward places.
Um, and that's going to start your conversation on a more open basis. If you're on Field, you literally can write a profile that says, Hey, I am getting divorced. I'm still living with my ex. We're letting each other see other people. We're opening things up. I haven't had sex with anyone in 15 years. That's really what I'm looking for to find somebody nice and you know, who's XYZ. Here's a cute picture of me. Let's start a conversation. You can be that clear and that direct. on field, I find it really refreshing. But if you are on the more conventional apps, like Hinge and Bumble and Tinder, it's going to be a little bit more of a crapshoot when sex comes into the conversation.
There's often either sincere guys Who are sincerely looking for someone to date and have a relationship with and have things evolve organically. And then there's fuckboys, right? And sometimes one is posing as the other. Tune in to, you know, is this a farce that we're doing because this person is trying to get to a place where we can talk about sex?
Or is this guy so sincere and maybe I'm just looking for sex? And it's not a match because of that. I mean, I have met people on all of the apps and it is a crapshoot. And my advice is really just to take it step by step with people to build trust and to increase the intimacy of the media that you're using to connect.
So start out in the app, start out texting, but like quickly get to a phone call, which is very disarming for people. And then you can really be human beings together, but without the pressure of looking at each other. And then you could move to FaceTime if you want to, if you want to get a glimpse into their world, if you want to see their face, if you want to communicate with them that way, that gives you a whole bunch more data.
And as you feel comfortable, you will know whether to continue to engage, continue to escalate the intimacy of the medium through which you are communicating. And what I really cannot stress enough is that The best thing you can do is tune in very deeply to how you are feeling while you are having these conversations.
Tune in deeply to what your intuition is telling you about this person, about the way you vibe together, about the dynamic. Because you're going to get all kinds of signals from your intuition. That this person is a safe person, or this person is an idiot, or this person only wants sex, or this person doesn't want sex at all, this person is boring, or they make you laugh.
I think it's really fascinating to ask yourself at every step of your communication with these guys. How does this make me feel? How do I feel? And a lot of the time, you're going to get red flags. And they can be little tiny red flags, like a little red flag in a cocktail. And in other ones, you're going to get giant red flags.
And you don't owe anyone anything on these apps. So if something fucked up happens, or someone is a bad communicator, or someone says something that makes you feel weird, or someone's being really pushy, You can just block them or disconnect. You don't owe them an explanation for why you're bailing. Now, is that like a best practice for moral and ethical behavior?
Perhaps not, but you have to decide how much energy you want to put into coaching these guys about what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. And you're not there to be their wife or their mother. Like, you're their school teacher. Sometimes for my own sake, I have said, Hey, you seem really intermittently engaged in this conversation.
And I'm looking for someone who's into me. So I'm going to bail. Best of luck. I think you can practice that kind of thing. If you want to practice boundaries, you can use these weak ties with strangers as an opportunity to practice being direct, practice saying what you need. Being clear about your boundaries, what makes you feel good and safe and comfortable.
And then they can fuck off if they don't treat you how you deserve to be treated. There was this really hot guy I matched with on field. And I was so excited because his profile was fun and he seemed really open and loose. And his first question to me when we matched was if I was into threesomes. And I gave an honest response and he didn't respond, like beyond the first initial, like, am I going to get what I want out of this woman?
However he perceived me on the app, like he went straight for the thing he wanted to know. I gave him a response, either liked it or he didn't like it. And then he didn't continue the conversation. He was like off flirting with somebody else. And I just disconnected. I was like, well, this is not going to be a thing.
This is transactional. I don't like this. This feels shitty. Bye. It really bye. You don't have to feel shitty. Just disengage. Just stop the conversation either directly or just quit it. When you meet someone, you can decide. based on how the conversations have gone, where you want to meet them and on what terms, right?
So sometimes I have, I have felt like, I don't know how, I don't know about this guy. Let's just, I'm going to have coffee with him. I'm just going to have coffee with him. And if we can have a conversation, then maybe we can go on a date and then maybe we can hook up, but I'm going to roll it all the way back to coffee because that's where I feel most comfortable.
Sometimes I've had really great phone conversations with people and I found out something that we have in common. One guy who was like, like a go to lover for me when I first separated from my husband. I found out that his mom lives half a block from me and he grew up on the street where I live. And that immediately gave me this sort of sense of comfort with him where I was like, he's a neighborhood guy.
This is where he lives. He's lived here his whole life. He's never going to go anywhere else. If I needed to find him again, I would know where to find him. And I was like, Oh, we're, we got along great in the phone call, but I was like, I don't know if there's any chemistry there. And then one day he was like, do you want to hang out?
And I was like, yeah, let's smoke some weed and listen to records. I was like in such a teenager mode at the time. I ended up going to his place, which is a couple blocks from my kid's school. And then all bets were off once I was there because we connected and it was hot and whatever. But that was not my intention.
I didn't know what was going to happen, but I felt intuitively, I felt safe with this guy because I had all this information about him. And we had a normal conversation about our careers and our interests and what's up with us. And that turned into a thing that we could keep going till this day if I wanted it to.
I think So much of this is your judgment. And if you've been in a long marriage and you've only been dealing with one person and one relationship dynamic, I think you've got to take your time. With some guys, you're going to have these like sexy, flirty, almost dirty, like as dirty as you want it to be conversations over text or inside the app or wherever, and then you're going to go, Oh my God, I've shared so much about myself sexually here.
I'm freaked out. I'm not going to meet him. He knows too much and it's too weird and he's going to have weird expectations and let's not do that. I'm going to dial this back. You are never obligated to meet someone in person and if you meet them in person, you're not obligated to do anything that you talked about doing, but I would definitely do as much as I could to get a real vibe on the person before I met them.
And then once I meet them, really listen to my body and my intuition about who this person is. Because they're going to say who they are, but you're going to feel who they are, right? So, you also ask, what about safe sex? Do you discuss that ahead of time or does that kill the chemistry? Safe sex is really important to talk about and it is not easy.
In an ideal world, you would be SCI tested regularly. You would share those results with your partners and use condoms until you're exclusive. I think there are probably some people out there who can be that rigorous. I have never succeeded in being that rigorous. At the very least, you should use condoms.
And if it's directly on the table that you're going to have sex, then it should be directly on the table to talk about it. If you've been having phone sex with somebody and you're ready to like take it to real life, I think you can say, and you're going to wear a condom, right? Like. We're not idiots, like, we gotta use condoms.
And I think most guys expect that they're gonna have to wear a condom. And inevitably, if there's gonna be penetration, then it's gonna come up, and it's better to have established it earlier than having to do it in the moment. And again, there are worse things. Then uncomfortable conversations there just are.
And if you're with someone who's going to make a big stink about condoms, it's probably better to find that out sooner rather than later when you were not in the heat of the moment. Um, because that just sucks. You said, as a woman, do you not worry about going to stranger's residences? Where do you have sex?
Oh God, you're asking the wrong person. I would say meet them out in the world first, either for coffee or at a bar. If they're smart, they'll pick somewhere near their place. I have made out in cars. Um, it's idiotic, but what's a single mom to do when the kids are at home? You can definitely get a hotel room, and some guys will suggest that. That does give you a measure of safety in a certain way, but it also puts you in isolation with the person. In a pristine space, it can be weird. It certainly sets the expectation that this is all about fucking. You can go Have lunch with them. You can have coffee with them. You can say, why don't I come over for lunch?
Or some unexpected time of day. And then if you feel intuitively, and based on all your spidey senses that you've been cultivating across the number of conversations and engagements and escalating forms of communication with this person, that they are safe enough to go to their house. That is a call that you have to make and I would say that if you feel sketched out on any part of that journey, if something is feeling wrong to you, get the fuck out of there. Turn around, bail in the last minute, never feel like you have to go through with something just because you said you would. This person is a stranger, you don't owe them anything.
How can I feel safe both as a woman and sexually as I enter this new exploratory phase? Take your time. Just take your time. Vet your partners. Talk to a lot of different people, get a sense of what all the different types of conversations are, and just like with a friend. You're going to click with some people, you're just going to click and it's going to be fun to talk to them and you're going to feel at ease with them and it's going to escalate in a way that feels normal and nice to you and they're going to say nice things to you and it's going to make you feel sexy and attractive and you're not going to feel creeped out and those are the people that you take the next step with.
If you rush, you're going to end up in some sketchy situations. If you think that because you had a sexual conversation with someone that you have to have sex with them, you do not. You do not. You are going to tune into your intuition big time and make it your guiding force. Where do you feel good? Where do you feel comfortable?
Where do you feel safe? Where are the green flags? Ease is sometimes an indicator that something is right. When something feels really easy, and it flows easily, and you move from one thing to the next, and you like each other, and you acknowledge that you like each other, then there's sort of positive reinforcement all around. You will know, but you may be rusty. You may be rusty and that's okay to take your time, trust yourself and know that on the other side, unless the person is a psycho, they are experiencing all the same weirdness that you're experiencing. And you can say to them, this is fucking weird, right? This is so weird.
We're negotiating where we're going to have sex. We haven't even met or we're having coffee, but the undertone here is, are we going to hook up? Like it is kind of fun to just call it like it is. And you're not 20. And you're not trying to marry these people. What you want is real connection. And you'll know when you feel that.
Real connection does not have to be falling in love with someone. It can just be like, I like this person. I'm enjoying this. This feels good. I'd like to continue this and expand on what we've been talking about here and maybe make out a little bit and then whatever comes after that. So Um, Curious, I think it's wonderful that you're on the path.
I think it's wonderful that you're willing to try this crazy world of dating apps. This is just how people meet now. I would say try everything in the beginning, hone down into what feels right. Maybe don't renew your bumble. subscription for the next month. Keep an eye on that Apple app store subscriptions.
They can sneak up on you with their auto renew, but you'll find people that you connect with. You'll realize which app environment feels the best to you. And then, yeah, there is a level of risk, but you can mitigate that risk through escalating modes of communication, through taking your time, keying into your intuition, and then when you meet someone, meeting them in a public, neutral context, and taking it from there.
Oh my God. Curious. You got to write it in and tell us how much fun you're having or how weird it's been or what it's like to hook up with somebody who isn't your husband for the first time in 20 years. Oh my God. In my experience. It was very exciting and liberating. Gosh. I'm really, really happy for you. Report back.
Thanks for listening to Hotter Than Ever Listener Mail. How can you ask a question? I'm so glad you asked. DM us at hotter than ever pod on Instagram or leave me a voicemail or text the hotter than ever hottie hotline at 323 844 2303. I would love to answer your question in a future episode.
Hotter Than Ever is produced by Erica Gerard and Pod Kit Productions. Our associate producer is Melody Carey. Music is by Chris Keating with vocals by Issa Fernandez. This has been listener mail. This has been listener mail.
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