Erin: Welcome to Hotter Than Ever, where we uncover the unconscious rules we've been following. We break those rules, and we find a new path to being freer, happier, sexier, and more self expressed. I'm your host, Erin Keating. Welcome to those of you who are new listeners to the hotter than ever podcast. I am so glad you found us, and I think you're really gonna enjoy these conversations. And to the hotties who listen every week, it is great to see you. You are looking fabulous, and that color is great on you. Did you do something new with your hair? Oh my God, you look amazing.
I have a couple of things to share with you before we get into this excellent conversation. I'm going to be doing one episode a week for July and August. I've been doing two a week since January, and I need to slow roll the summer. I bet you do, too. In what ways are you scaling back in order to make room for pleasure and relaxation and fun? You know, I'm all about that for you and for me, we got to balance all that ambition and curiosity and responsibility with a little rest and reflection. So that's what I'm going to be doing, and I hope you will be too. Another piece of exciting news is that I am doing a live show about dating online over 40 with my fabulous, talented, and charismatic friend, Amber J. Lawson.
It's called Swipe Club, and it's going to be really fun and informative and empowering. It's a night out here in Los Angeles at the Crow Theater at the Bergamot Station arts complex, and for now, our first show, it's a one night only deal, is Friday, July 19 at 08:00 p.m. tickets are $25 or $20 with the code flirty. Go to crowcomedy.com for tickets. They'll be up there momentarily. And also you can look for all the details in the hotter than ever newsletter. Okay, that's all the business. Putting that aside, today I talk to Kim Rittberg.
Kim is an award winning digital marketer who teaches business owners and brands how to grow leads and revenue through video and podcasts. And she brings 20 years of media experience from Netflix and POPSugar and tv news to bear for her clients. She also hosts the podcast the exit interview with Kim Rittberg. If you are self employed, this is a great podcast to help you grow your business. You know, this is not a media or business podcast, obviously, but what is really interesting to me about Kim is that she left corporate life after launching the first ever video unit for Us Weekly. I mean, that's a huge accomplishment. And it was sold for $100 million. But she left to start her own company because balancing being a hard charging corporate media mover and shaker with motherhood became impossible.
And she also saw that she did not receive the spoils of that hundred million dollar deal. You know, when you're an employee and you're on a w two and you've got your direct deposit, you don't participate in the big upsides like that. She talks about the challenges and opportunities of running your own business and how her desire to have more control over her time and schedule has evolved into a calling. And, you know, I love to share about how people are called to do the work they do. All right, let's get hotter than ever.
Kim Rittberg, welcome to Hotter Than Ever.
Kim: Thank you, Erin. Excited to be here.
Erin: So we met, and what I was immediately impressed by with you is this giant pivot that you made. You had this big career. You had all of this success in corporate life, and then something must have happened that made you want to leave that and start your own thing. And I would love to understand what that moment looked like, what that period of your life looked like, and what your head space was like when you decided to sort of boldly venture and take a big bet on yourself.
Kim: So it was in the hospital.
Erin: My God, my origin story.
Kim: So the iv drip in one arm and my iPhone in the other. And so it was at this point, I'd been in media for about 15 years, and I had launched the first ever video unit for us Weekly, like you mentioned. That was like a dream job. Like, I will never complain about it because basically I got to build a startup on someone else's money. I had a great boss who supported me, and I got to build a team and oversee the creative. It was like the dream job that I just pushed for until I made it happen. I basically willed it to happen. However, you know, even dream jobs explode and turn into nightmares or whatever and whatever the metaphor is.
But after being there for several years and it sold for $100 million, and even the new buyers said, oh, Kim, we love the video unit you built. It's a big reason, part of the reason that we're buying this company, I was like, oh, yay. But what ended up happening is, like, you don't get all of the spoils just because you had a big win. So we got bought by another company. I'm in the hospital working because we were bought all these people were quitting. So I was working to fill those open roles, and I was like, you know, ten and a half months pregnant, however many months till you. That baby pops out. But, like, ten months pregnant, too pregnant, too pregnant. And, you know, it's like, you realize, a, when you're working for a corporation, none of it's yours.
Erin: Right, right.
Kim: You don't necessarily get a percentage. You don't even necessarily get a better title. Maybe I got a better title, but, like, not more money, not more flexibility. This was pre Covid, so it wasn't even, like, I got more flexibility, a better situation out of it.
Erin: Right, right.
Kim: And so I think it was just a reality check of, like, do I want to be this caricature of a career woman in a rom com? and I don't hear that spoiler alert. I don't.
Erin: And was this your first kid?
Kim: That was my second. So I had my first, actually, as I was building that unit. And it was great. Like, I was, like, pumping in the office, leading a team of ten people and then 17 people, but I was like, I loved it. And it was. It was exhilarating. But when I had my second kid, that was when the company got bought, and everyone on my team was, like, quitting around the other. Rest of the office was getting fired.
That's normal for mergers. It's just how it goes. Yeah, but what's not normal is that, like, you're in the hospital bed having a baby, and everyone's like, who should we hire for this role? What should we do? The studio is moving to this place. I'm like, can I just get my epidural done? Thanks.
Erin: Yeah. And also, your reward for your hard work is more hard work.
Kim: Yeah, always. That's an always thing. That's not even an epiphany.
Erin: I know. It's like, there's no. Right. There's no cash surprises that occur to you as a. As a, you know, w two style employee, even, you know, your bonus structure probably wasn't even tied to the sale.
Kim: Sigh.
Erin: Sigh. Yeah. And so what was your thought? Your thought was, get me out of here. I'm gonna do x, y, z with one toddler and a baby on my hip.
Kim: Yeah. So I feel like, you know, in, like, soundbite land where I came from for, like, I worked in tv for so long, and then media, it's, oh, well, what's the soundbite out of this experience? So, normally I would say, oh, well, I was working during labor, and then I launched a business, and it was a huge success. You know, that's not really what happens. I had always kind of thought, hey, there's not that many moms in the offices I worked in. Where are all the moms? Is this the right place for them? And then. So I started to regroup and say, what's the next step? What do I want to do? And I was very curious about the idea of working for myself. My dad had been an entrepreneur. Dad was also an immigrant. We have, like, that super hustle culture, like, in our blood.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: So I feel like I'm not afraid. I'm never afraid of hard work, but I didn't really know what a small business would look like. I didn't understand how, like, the skills I have, which are very valued in media, I don't know what that meant for a business. So I had an idea, loosely, oh, it'd be nice to work for myself. And I was like, okay, I probably made, like, $5,000 in freelance work this year. Like, that's not really a company. So I think I got scared of really figuring it out. And so I took two full time jobs. Even though I knew I wanted to work for myself, I took two full time jobs.
Erin: Are you allowed to have two full time jobs?
Kim: Oh, not at the same time. Sorry. One. And then one. One job flamed out. One job flamed out, and then another job. Then I worked at Netflix for a year, which was a great experience. And, like, I got to work to work on some amazing projects, but I already knew that I wanted to work for myself.
Like, I was already totally in that mindset of, like, two years after that hospital epiphany. I'm going to do it. I'm going to work for myself.
Erin: Yeah. And how did you figure out how to translate the skills that you had in your corporate life into a sort of list of services that you provide in your entrepreneurial life?
Kim: Well, so, I mean, the first part that I like to talk about, by the way, is the fear involved in making that change that I feel like people don't talk about is like, I was scared. S list. I don't know if we could say curses.
Erin: Yes, please, curse.
Kim: Oh, my God. Thank you so much for letting me curse. I just was really terrified to start my own business. I just. All of the things, like, you could have all the confidence in the world, but when you have to do a new thing, everything you know about yourself, you're like, I don't know if I know this about myself anymore. And so I just was kind of like, I don't know what this looks like. I don't know if I could do this. Can I do this? I'm not really sure.
Really did a lot of the same things that everyone does in career search. I basically talked to everybody I knew who was working for themselves. I really had to start networking again in a totally new way because all of my contacts were corporate, and it was really, like, daunting. I'm just like, I don't know what this is. But I did feel driven by, I don't want to work at a company right now. I don't want that. I want the control. I want to just be in charge of myself and my life and my hours. And I was like, I don't know what this is going to look like, but I'm just gonna keep going.
Erin: I love that. And I obviously relate to that so much, and I relate to sort of taking this leap of faith and also to going, you know what? I think I might succeed at this. Like, I don't know for sure because I've not done it before, but I've done all the bits and pieces of it, and I've been successful, you know, under the protective umbrella of my direct deposit job. But what do you think keeps women from taking risks and taking bets on themselves?
Kim: It's so. It's interesting. It's hard to extrapolate it out from your own experience to the larger people. Cause I think about this. I grew up in a very, like, egalitarian, non gender biased house. I was never told, like, girls don't do that. Like, that's not lady. Like, I didn't get any of that messages.
Those messages. I had two older brothers. My mom was like, I don't want to say free spirit, but very. She marches to the beat of her own drum.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: She got her law degree when we were in middle school, even though we were, like, in the suburbs. It was just. We just had a different thing. My dad was an immigrant. We just had, like, a different vibe going on. I never was like, I can't do that because I'm a girl. Like, I think I wrote, like, I want to be the first woman president when I was in first grade. Like, I was never lacking confidence.
My parents always told me that I was great, great and smart and talented and whatever. I took that with me. But in certain parts of your life, even when you feel really confident, maybe you think you're smart or, you know you're smart because you have good grades. Maybe you think you're well liked because you have friends to prove it. Even sometimes, that confidence doesn't always even translate to these other situations. So I think that some of it is, like, I don't think we do a good job.
I'll just speak on behalf of womenkind. I don't think we always do a good job translating or transmuting our accomplishments or our skills into striking through fear for new endeavors. So for me, that meant when I was going to start my business, I wasn't like, hey, Kim, look at all these other things you've done in your life that show you you can do it. You started this new unit at Us Weekly that sold for a lot of money. You were a successful tv producer. Like, you did really well in school. I didn't feel like, well, all of those things mean I, of course, will run a successful business. Like, I didn't apply those things.
I felt, like, really scared to take that big risk. And I think about that as me, as someone who's, like, less gender stereotyped. Like, I raised. I was raised with less gender stereotypes. Like, I don't know if all women feel that way, but I definitely felt like in some places, I was really confident. Like, when I went into get that job at Us Weekly, I, like, went to the head and I said, I'm going to build you a video unit. Like, totally bold. Like, a very bold move.
I was like, this is a great brand, and I have all of this experience in tv and red carpets, and I'm a really fast learner. Like, I'm going to do this thing for you. And some places you're so bold and so confident. In other places, you're not. And so, I don't know. I'm not sure. What do you think in terms of, like, women? Because I don't know.
Erin: Well, I think as a person who kind of played the corporate game for a long time, there were parts of the media business that felt open and welcoming to me, and there were parts that felt like I had to press my ear up against the door to learn stuff. And also, so I was a creative executive. So, like, women are allowed to be creative executives, right? Because we're creative and we do the touchy feely things. But in terms of, like, getting access to the halls of power where, like, the decisions were being made and the money was being allocated and all of that stuff, that felt like a world that I was not going to excel in or would not be welcomed in in most of the companies that I worked for. And so I kept myself in a box right, where I was like, well, I don't play politics and I'm not going to go into the CEO's office. I'm not that person. And so I'm just going to crush it quietly and allow my successes to speak for themselves and then also to accrue to my boss's resumes. So, I mean, that is what ultimately does happen, is when you do something great, but you're not the head, you know, all the successes accrue to the people above you from the people below them.
And so I just sort of told myself I didn't want that. And I didn't want it because I didn't want to be at the sausage party and I didn't want to be the only woman on the conference call like my boss was. You know, in my last job, she would be on a call with 30 guys because there were no other women at her level. And, you know, and there was a lot of hand wringing in the company about like, how come there's no other women at her level? It's like, well, you don't fucking put them there. You don't let them be there. And the ones you put there, you make super uncomfortable.
Kim: Looking back, would you do anything differently?
Erin: No. No. Because I never really meant to be in corporate life. I just always wanted to make cool stuff with cool people. And that was what I followed really rigorously, was the creative opportunities and the vision of the company and the team and the person I was working for and the team that I was working with. No, I had success beyond my own imagining because I never really imagined corporate success, right? I only ever really thought about creative success. And now that I am out on my own and trying to and working to build hotter than ever as a business, I have to stretch into those areas of business development and all this sort of MBA style stuff because I have such a big vision. And the podcast is the beginning, but it's, it's by no means the end game.
It's the entry point, right? And so I am having to stretch and also having to say to myself, you are so good at what you know how to do. So just lean hard into that and then tell people the pieces of it that you don't know how to do and find help and find allies and find partners. And I, you know, this year, like, I've been making a lot of business development phone calls and like, asking my network for specific people and things and connections and insights and relationships, which is all so much like what I did in my last job in order to find and uncover, show opportunities as a mobile tv producer. Right. But I'm now doing it on my own behalf, which is just a different thing and actually feels so amazing. Do you relate to that experience of needing to do all of that outreach on your own behalf in a different way than you did it for a company?
Kim: Yeah, it's one of those things. I think that's one of the things I have reached into my bag of accomplishments and been like, I've done some version of all this before. You know, I have cold called people, cold emailed people, like, especially in tv, I have had to do really big, hard things for tv and media and just figured it out.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: And so that element of the business, like, there's a lot of stuff, like, the thing about running your own business is, like, even if you're not going to do your own bookkeeping, you need to understand your finances. Even if you're not going to do your own social media, you need to understand social media. Even if you aren't like, let's say you have somebody helping with business development, you're still the head of business development. You got to be on every call. And so I think all of those things I understand. I'm kinder to myself about being like, that's something. In this summer, maybe I will watch a longer thing about Google Ads.
Erin: Right?
Kim: Like, next fall, maybe I will do this thing. So I'm always, like, learning, which you're always learning in media, too. So I think those are the. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things that I take with me from the confidence, but also just, I am able to say, hey, I did all those things. We all have done all those things in our corporate or business, corporate world, company world, whatever that do apply now. And like, I had to research, I had to cold call people. I had to figure things out.
I had to, like, figure out new technology all the time at every new company. When I went to Us Weekly, like, there was an empty conference room and nothing there, and I had to turn into a live tv studio to put out like 20 hours of live content in addition to, like, hundreds of short form videos with a brand new team where basically they weren't even gonna be hard drives. They were like, why do you need hard drives? I'm like, why does a writer need a pencil? But like, you know, you know, it's just a sort of thing is like, there's just a lot of, there's so much of that, like, bang your head against the wall.
But I think it prepared me to say, I'm a can do person. I'm a hard worker, and those eventually are the things that work. And also, I think, you know, listen to you and I and the people listening, it's like, you all know what you're good at, and it's about leaning into that. Like, I'm actually very social and I'm very chatty, and I feel like the more I've actually been more of Kim, the business has been booming. Like, the less I was trying to, like, impersonate some person in a pantsuit who knows about video, the better off I am. And so, like, I. I think that's also a part of it, is just being like, well, why do people like to work with you?
Erin: Right?
Kim: What is it about you that makes you special? And I don't just mean your skillset, I mean your skillset, but also you as a person. And I think that that's been another part of it, is just being like, what are the things I'm amazing at? How do I lean into that? Things that I suck at? How do I learn? Or delegate.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: Or both. And so, like, I think that's been a really great thing over the past, like, year that I've really been like, I'm gonna. I'm doing this. This thing is happening. I'm doing it.
Erin: Yeah. Yeah, I love it. I love your spirit around it, too. I think. Yeah, I think a lot about, like, what are the things that only I can do?
Kim: Yeah.
Erin: You know, what are the things that really require me to. To be at the heart of it, and then what are the things that I can sort of give someone direction and put them on that path?
Kim: And I think about that, like, basically, you know, I help people with video. How do you make a video? How do you write a video? What's a good video and social media strategy? But I say to people, if you're looking for someone to, like, do your Instagram, just, like, hire someone to do your instagram. If you're looking to understand how to be the chief marketing officer of your brand or how to be a thought leader and how to actually make people think you're the expert. I'm the person to do that. And why? Because I worked in media and video production, so I was both a journalist and a person who made videos. What does that mean? That means, like, I was the person saying yes or no if you wanted to be on tv. I read thousands of pitches. I trained hundreds of people to be on camera.
Kim: That is different than a person who might be very skilled but is a social media manager?
Erin: Sure.
Kim: They don't train people to be on camera. They don't oversee large shoots. They oversee small shoots. Maybe, maybe, maybe they don't. Maybe they just edit videos on their phone. It just depends. And so I think it's been a matter of leaning into, these are the skills that I have. This is how I can help you.
And I think the other thing is, I really think there's something special about every single person. And I truly think that if I didn't think that, I wouldn't be a coach and a video strategist or consultant. I really wouldn't do that if I didn't think so. But every single person has something special about them, and most of us are just too afraid to show up as that.
Erin: Kim, say that again.
Kim: Every single person is special, but most of us are too afraid to show up in the world and let them see how special we are.
Erin: I mean, that may be true for men, but I definitely know that it's true for women. And because, you know, we don't package up so neatly. Right. We're complex, we're dimensional, we're emotional in addition to intellectual. There's so many elements of us, of each person, like, what does authenticity really mean? We use that word, we hear that word. I try to live that word in the fact that I am no longer lying about anything in my life. And I think for a long, long time, I was lying either directly to others, I was lying to myself mostly, and I was lying by omission in a lot of contexts where, like, I thought that in order to be the professional person that I was, I could not let anyone know. And I just was not conscious on my part to be this.
This guarded. But I really didn't let anyone know what was going on in the rest of my life. Like, it was too vulnerable and scary because I had so many eggs in my professional basket, and I just didn't want to jeopardize anything, and I didn't want to make people worried about me. So, yeah, I mean, how do we stay authentic? How do we be authentic without jeopardizing the success we've made for ourselves?
Kim: Yeah. So I think it's interesting as more. As more of us put more of our lives online, like, whether you're at a company and you're posting on LinkedIn or the business and you're trying to grow on social media, I think just as we are more public, you know, as we are living in this world, that's just more public, even if you're not, like, I'm not a public person. Like, there's still an element of your life that's public, but you decide what parts of yourself you want to share. Yeah, but the parts of yourself that you are sharing, you have to really show up as you always. And that means, like, I think about it this way, is like, I'm a person who's kind of loose. Like, I'm fun. I like to have fun.
But, like, I have to show up as that. I have to show up in every post on social media, every time I'm on a stage teaching people about video. I can't just be teaching them about video. I have to be Kim teaching them about video. I have to be, like, the most Kim version of Kim.
Erin: Why?
Kim: Because who are you otherwise? Otherwise you're just the book you read. Otherwise, you're the chat GPT version of yourself. The only reason people want to work with us or be with us or be our friends or our partners or our teachers or mentors or whatever is because of you. And I think when we're layering on all these filters, I mean, like, literally, like, life filters, we're like, oh, I don't want to talk about that. I don't want to talk about that. I want to be too guarded. Then people can't even see any of the real you, such to the point that you're basically like a chat GPT answer of yourself and there's no you left. And so what does that mean? Like, that means, for me, when I show up as a seminar, probably when I started my business, I showed up as a seminar, I was probably like, hey, it's five ways you can do this video to grow your business.
It was like another person reading off the words that I know. But Kim showing up as that is being like, hey, everybody, video sucks. You think video sucks? Video doesn't suck. It could be fun. Let me make it fun for you. That's what being authentic is. It's like, I finally, after a while, like, came up and started telling people, guess what? I, with my insane resume, objectively, I'm like, my resume is insane. Like, I was an executive.
I did tv for a billion years. I went to inaugurations. I covered red carpets. I was at the Oscars. Like, I had a great resume. I worked really hard. I went to Penn. Went, you know, graduated cum laude for Penn.
But even I, when it was time to, like, show up on camera and start showing up by leading seminars, like, I just felt really, like, self conscious and felt really like, why am I doing this? Who cares? About me. Who cares what I have to say? Like, does anyone want to learn from me? Does anyone want to learn from me? Like, I'd already spoken on a panel as a vice president of branded video somewhere, so obviously people listen to me. I've trained, like, these producers on my team. I was, like, a respected person in media, but I still was showing up, like, oh, who cares what I have to say say. And I think that being authentic is saying, a, I am who I am. I bring things to the table.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: So, like, a. That confidence piece of being, like, no, no, no. Whatever it is that I have, whatever accomplishments I have, I'm going to bring those. But then also start to actually use your real voice and your real personality wherever you are.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: At a cocktail party, in a networking meeting, at a. At a job interview, and on social media, use your real natural spoken voice. And, like, if that's hard for you and you're posting on social media, like, talk, use the dictation text function. Talk into your phone. Say what you're going to say by talking and not writing. Because when we write, we're often more robotic.
Erin: Formal.
Kim: Yeah, yeah, we're more formal. Don't be formal. Be you. That's why people like you and I think. We think we have to be this other person in different scenarios. But actually, whoever you are that's gotten you the successes and the accomplishments you had, you have to be more of that, not less of that.
Erin: Yeah. I think it took me. It probably took me ten or 15 years in my career to figure out how to bring my whole personality, not just my whole. My whole self, because I didn't bring my whole self to work.
Kim: Totally. Totally. I was like, I'm gonna leave that. Those shorts of Kim home.
Erin: There's too much mess in that scenario. But you know how to bring my whole personality and, like, how to fuck around and how to joke. I mean, I make jokes. Like, you know, I make jokes in bed. Like, I make jokes. I can't fucking help it, you know? So, like, that's just how I am, and it is a. It's just a personality trait, and it's also a way that I disarm people without being strategic, you know, where I just sort of instinctively know how to loosen up a room. And I also now I share myself. I go first. I'm happy to go first in the revealing and difficult conversations.
I'm happy to say, we are here to have a difficult conversation, or we are here to do something awkward, or this might suck, you know, like, what I one thing I learned in tv is I had to pass constantly on people's hopes and dreams so people would bring their creative ideas, and sometimes we would go, we would work on something for months, and then I would take it to my bosses in whatever form that I could make. That was the best possible presentation of those materials, and I would get a no, and then I would have to go back to those people and go, hey, like, I shot my shot and we didn't get it, you know, or this thing that you pitched to me, it's not going to work. And how do you, you know that? Like, muscle of being able to have uncomfortable and hard conversations where you're rejecting people and breaking their hearts and fucking up their businesses. Like, every day was a great training for anything I ever would need to do in the future because I can have a hard conversation and walk out of it, not having fucked up the relationship, you know? And that's. That's something I learned on the job.
But it took me a long time. It took me a long time. And a lot of repetition, which I imagine for you, too, just a lot of. A lot of. A lot of repetition to get the sort of solid skillset that you have. And that's why I love women who are over 40. We've been doing it. We've been building our credibility out there in the world and with ourselves.
Erin: Our credibility with ourselves.
Kim: Right. You know, and, you know, it's interesting what you were saying about the vulnerability, because I think that we all struggle with, like, different parts of it. For me, I could always open a room and make people laugh and make them like me, but revealing more of myself, of my vulnerabilities, my insecurities, you're not supposed to do that in corporate. So, like, once you kind of enter this other world where that's valued. So now I live. I don't live my life on social media. I just. I'm on social media for my business.
Kim: And so a lot of my life gets put there. And being vulnerable is like, very. I'm allergic to being vulnerable, but I take my claritin and I do it because I just made that up, by the way.
Erin: I like it. Keep it, trademark it.
Kim: I like it. There you go. You know, for me, the being funny piece was always there, but the being vulnerable piece was new to me. But the being funny piece, I had to bring back as a business owner because that's so integral to who I am. Like, I did improv comedy with my brother in my twenties. I'm a very loose person. Like, I'm funny, but I had to bring it back. And especially in the past year and a half, I've basically been doing keynotes and speeches.
I am like, I'm going to make you laugh. Like, you're going to learn something. We're going to have fun.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: And if you're not on your feet, laughing and smiling and sharing with me, like, I did a bad job. And. But that's also come to, I have to build it in. So think about authenticity is when you're in a new situation, it's not fake to actually say, how do I inject more of the real me? Because when we get put in a new situation. So I teach video, right? So I say to people, when someone says, you're going to be on camera, just act natural. That's the worst advice you could possibly give somebody. Oh, there's. There's a coffee cup.
You're going to talk to this coffee cup for five minutes and just act natural. It's like you're talking to an inanimate object. It is not natural. It's actually what we used to, like, put people in asylums for, like, 100 years ago. So I think just the consciousness of, like, when you're in a new situation, you might feel uncomfortable because you're in a new situation. Here's how to be more you in that situation.
Erin: Okay, how do we do it? How do we do it?
Kim: If I'm in a new situation and I'm giving a speech, I'm putting in my slide deck, I'm putting in my scripts. Moments that I can be me aside. So, like, a funny aside. So I'd be like, okay, Aaron, we're going to learn video. Don't roll your eyes. I saw you rolling your eyes. I caught you, you know.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: Just moments that are, whether they're really improv, that was improvised, of course.
Erin: Well done.
Kim: Thank you. Bravo. Make sure to put in the sound effects of, like, clapping afterwards. But thank you.
Erin: Beautiful.
Kim: And then. Or you can actually write in some things that you would actually say that feels less robotic. And I know that that sounds like, oh, it's so scripted. It's like if you're doing something off a script or if you're doing a speech, or if you're doing a meeting and you know you're going to be nervous and you know it's going to be hard to be your natural self. Put in prompts that help you be more natural, because that's what people connect with you. If you just have a script and you're nervous. You're going to sound like a robot. And a script can be a seminar, a workshop, a panel, a video, whatever.
And so I think the idea of understanding new situations prompt you to kind of go back in your turtle shell. So you have to have tools and tips and knowledge, but actually, like the skillset to say, I'm going to be nervous here before I do this speech. Am I going to breathe? I'm going to breathe. Like, I gave my first keynote last year. I thought I was going to throw up and pee in my pants at the exact same time.
Erin: Yes, I can.
Kim: I told my kids that. I'm like, I was like, I can't do it. I'm not going to walk out there. And I was like, no, Kim, you teach people how to do this. You're going to breathe. You're going to breathe. You're going to listen to that Beyonce song. You're going to breathe.
You're going to not talk to anybody before you go on. You're going to smile, and you're going to think of something that makes you laugh. And I did, and I went up there and I killed it. But I just felt as. Just as nervous as every other person. Even though someone was paying me to do a keynote, I felt just as nervous. And I think, so it's just saying, I know I'm going to be nervous. I'm real with myself.
Kim: How do I prepare myself for that moment? So I think that's what authenticity is about, is understanding. Like, who we are is not always revealed in every situation, and preparing yourself to be more yourself in the scary situations.
Erin: I think that's so gorgeous. And I do think we're in a cultural moment where that veneer that we used to feel like we needed to have, social media has kind of torn down that veneer. I mean, social media is fake as all fucked, and. But, like, there is also a lot of direct self expression out there and people sort of speaking to their truth and the issues that they care about and, you know, the expertise that they have. And I think, like, the sea change for me was Brene Brown's vulnerability, Ted talk, you know, which I, by the.
Kim: Way, never watched, but I now I should.
Erin: Yeah, you definitely have to. But, you know, it. You know what it is because it seeped into the culture, because it became part of how we started to think about what's going to make us happy, what's going to make us successful, and what's going to make us connected to each other, you know, and it's really the like, yeah, I have a friend who says, leaders go first. Leaders go first. So I'm. I think of myself as a leader, and so I. I'm always willing to go first. I'll share my thing first.
Erin: Y'all raise my hand first. I'll have you know, the room feels weird. Everybody's weird. I'll go first.
Kim: I'll go second.
Erin: Yeah, yeah, you'll probably go first if I'm not there. But, like, I.
Kim: You know, I'll get this out.
Erin: I think a lot about, you know, my kids talk a lot about, oh, that was awkward. That was uncomfy. My daughter uses the word uncomfy. Like, we have some conversation. She's like, mama, that was uncomfy. And I'm like, you know, the fucking world is uncomfy.
Kim: Yeah.
Erin: And most things are awkward or, you know, unexpected or uncomfortable. Like, anything you want, anything you're going for, is going to require you to pass through that feeling state to the other side, and it's worth it. And the world is not set up to be comfy.
Kim: I mean, I only learned how to express my feelings in a healthy way at age 26 with a therapist.
Erin: Yes. Great.
Kim: For real.
Erin: Because it's a skill set.
Kim: Skill set. No. And I never worked on it.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: I didn't realize how important it was, and I. I feel like my kids are lucky that they're benefiting from us being like, oh, it's okay that you feel that way. It's okay to cry. Also, let's talk about what's under those tears instead of just, like, hiding in our room and crying, which, you know, our generation did, but.
Erin: Right. Well, nobody was home.
Kim: Oh. I actually just had this memory the other day of me with a white or, like, white rope necklace with a key on it. And I ran into the house, and I opened the key, and the phone was ringing, and I, like, choked myself and, like, twisted the key in half because I was running to answer the phone. So it was, like, not just a latchkey kid, but, like, a latchkey kid moving too fast.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: You know?
Erin: Yeah. Anyway, totally. Oh, my God. Totally. Let's talk about imposter syndrome, because I saw someone do a commencement speech, and I want to be able to pull up her name, and I will put it in the show notes. Um, but it was at Smith College, and she talked about how imposter syndrome is not really real, that. That the reason you feel like an imposter is because so many of the. The spaces that women are walking into today that are opportunities that are high status environments, they're not made for us.
Erin: They were not made by us. And so we kind of have to be an imposter in order to step into those spaces. And I kind of love that, that imposter syndrome. You're actually fine, you know, you're fine as you are. What you. What you feel like you're faking is belonging. And it's. You don't belong in a lot of these rooms.
Erin: You're actually, you know, elbowing your way in or finding your way in or side dooring your way in. And. Yeah, no wonder it feels kind of shitty, you know? No wonder you don't know kind of who you are in that space because you want to try to be like those people and they're not you. I'm interested in that. That's a thesis. I'm curious about your thoughts.
Kim: That's interesting. You know, I was thinking about, like, I was just thinking about the gendered spaces. And I don't know, I feel like in media, it's actually very mixed gender.
Erin: Yes.
Kim: There's often men at the top.
Erin: Yes.
Kim: But the environment doesn't feel heavily masculine because there's a lot of women around.
Erin: Right.
Kim: You know what I mean? I didn't work in finance. I didn't work in law. So it was like, it felt very gender mixed. It was mostly men in the, like, positions of power or majority men. Right. But I had worked for several female bosses. Like, I didn't see anybody who is a female leader. So it's interesting.
The one. I had one job where I was an executive, and I was like, definitely, like, probably one of the only, like, senior women. But interesting, the idea about belonging. I'm going to think about that. I'm going to audition that in my brain for the next day or two. I think about imposter syndrome is, I think it's connected to the fear we face for a lot of things. And I have this process that I go through when I'm like, okay, I did a keynote, actually, about facing fear, about, like, I think there's different steps you have to take as you go through the steps of it.
Kim: And I think imposter syndrome is similar but related. That. That discomfort, the uncomfiness you mentioned earlier.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: Like, that exists kind of with anything new.
Erin: Right.
Kim: And whether we call it fear or imposter syndrome or just, like, lack of knowledge, like, if. If you told me, I'm going to go do open heart surgery tomorrow, I would feel like an imposter. I would have imposter syndrome because I would be an imposter. So I think the level of, like, how far the situation is from your skill set, it impacts that.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: But I think there's this idea of, for me, when I'm stepping into something that's scary, I'm like, okay, how do I make my desire outweigh my fear? Because I think the fear is powerful and it's strong. Like, it's physiological. It's not just like, oh, it's in your head, and it's bouncing around. It's in your head. It's bouncing around. It's in your stomach. It's giving you a stomach ache. It's making you feel really stressed.
But for me, desire and fear were in juxtaposition. They were in contradiction to each other. When I decided to launch my business, the fear was like, no one's gonna work with you. You'll be poor. Okay? Fear, you'll be poor. Fear, you'll be mocked, you'll look pathetic. And the same things as when I started marketing myself for my businesses. Like, I'm gonna put myself on social media.
Fear everyone will judge me. Everyone who is an executive my peers respected, that I respect, are gonna think I'm a loser. A pathetic loser, begging for people to. Narcissists, begging for people to look at.
Erin: I had very similar things. So those are who she thinks she is.
Kim: Who does she think she is? And so those fears were like, it's not just me being like, I write down my fearsome journal. Those things, like, held me back for a really long time.
Erin: Yeah.
Kim: Like, they held me back. They held my success back for a long time. And finally I was like, okay, my desire is to still work. I didn't want to be a stay at home mom. It's not a fit for me. I want to still work in some setting, use my brand, be creative, also earn money. But I want to pick my kids up from school. I want to be able to say, like, it's a Thursday.
I want to get my kid from school. I want to, in the summer, be able to, like, be at the beach with my kids and work the hours I want to work and not be, like, beholden to the man, because I realized that I worked super hard for 20 years, and I got an amazing gold star and an amazing resume, but nothing else to show for it, right? So now I'm gonna own it. I'm gonna make this life be the life I want it to be. But the fears were there. It was like, no one's gonna hire me. Everyone's gonna think I'm a loser. Everyone's gonna judge me for being a narcissist. And I had to make the desire outweigh the fear, the desire to be in control of my schedule, to pick up my kids from school, to enjoy longer summers with them, and just know that you only live once.
That desire had to outweigh the fear before. I then started taking the small steps to build my business, the small steps to promote myself, the small steps to get clients, to get speaking engagements. But I. You can't even take those steps. Like, people would be like, what's the first step? I'm like, the first step is believing that you want to do this thing so bad that it shuts down those negative voices. That's the first step. It's not about, like, read a book, listen to a podcast. It's like, you have to believe you're meant to do this, and if you're not, it's not going to work.
Erin: Yeah. And for me, I also was so burnt out from corporate life that I was like, I can't. I actually can't do that. Like, I credibly could not go on a job interview and win a job because I didn't want it. Like, I am really bad at pursuing things I do not want. I was really bad in the classes I didn't like. You know, I could do the extra study sessions and whatever, but I would be kind of half checked out. I feel like, you know, for me, passion, enthusiasm, and curiosity are really my superpowers.
Erin: And if I cannot bring that to my work, I can't do a good job. I actually can't even pretend. And that's, like, a blessing and a curse, you know? And I had a lot of the similar things when I was, like, my biggest quandary was like, how do I talk about what I'm doing on LinkedIn? How do I talk about this on LinkedIn? Because, I mean, I talk about my sex life on this show. Like, I talk about sex and pleasure and intimacy and a lot of, you know, human things that women are going through at this phase in our lives with dating and, you know, divorce and new relationships and all of that stuff. And I am very revealed. And in the beginning, I was like, oh, my God, what am I going to do? What's everyone going to think of me? Like, I spent so many years building all these relationships, but the fact is that, like, I don't need everyone to like me.
Kim: Right, right.
Erin: You know, I need the people who get it to really get it, the listeners to the show they get it. They get it. And they need to hear the conversation. And I'm here for them to open the door for them to their own freedom, you know?
Kim: Right. But we are. And I don't know how much you associate yourself with this, but I've definitely acknowledged that I am a pleaser.
Erin: Yeah. Oh, for sure.
Kim: And so when you start doing things that you know or suspect will displease others, you're body is like, oh, no, but not everybody will like me. Oh, my God, how can I do that? And you have to start, you, it's just a new mindset. Like, you grow up trying to make everybody like you. And then when you're, like, more senior, you have to realize, like, some people won't like you, you fired them or you told them they're doing a bad job or whatever. Like, okay, you get used to that a little bit when you are become a leader. But I think now it's hard to, like, be like, I'm putting stuff out there. And some people might think it's silly, but the right people will think it's awesome. So it's like this weird.
Kim: I always say, like, when I teach, when I teach people about this stuff, I'm like, I'm actually teaching you to hold all of these truths in your head at the same time. We're super evolved, so it's okay. But I'm saying to you, ignore the negative voices that people are going to judge. You don't feel self conscious, because what you're doing is important for yourself, for your business, for your life, you want to do. Then as you do it more, you realize some people might not like your content. So it's kind of a reverse of the original stuff. But what it means is you got, you got the people who are into you to start being cheerleaders, to start being collaborators, to start being clients, to start being referrers, whatever, whatever. The thing you're looking for are you start getting that cheering squad, and then the people who aren't that into it, they're not gonna message you being like, you suck, you're lame, you're an artist.
Erin: Not until you're famous, and then they.
Kim: Wanna rip you down.
Erin: But yes, I agree with you. I agree with you. But it took part of me really relishes the fact that, like, not everybody's gonna be into what I'm up to. Like, part of me is like, good. Like, make more room for the people who need this conversation.
Kim: Oh, I'm like, oh, my God, you don't like, I'm like, oh, my God. You don't like me. Please like me.
Erin: I mean, yeah, I feel like if you don't like me, that's totally fine. There's plenty of other people out there for you to like. But I. What I hear from the listeners to the show is what we're talking about is vital. What they need for their lives is this conversation. And so, for me, there's almost this mission that makes it all worth it, which is like, I just want to set us all free, you know?
Kim: But that drives you. So that's the desire outweighing the fear. So you're like, oh, I don't care what people think, but even those fears that you were saying, people would think you're a narcissist. The desire to really put your message out there is driving you. For me, too, I was like, the desire for me to have a business that I have some freedom and control in. And now my desire is like, I actually have, like, hundreds of people, nearly 100, like, clients I've helped in the last year or two. And then I've literally spoken to thousands of people through my speaking. And I'm like, actually, this other thing that people say, which I also do believe, is, if you're not using your voice, no one can hear you.
Kim: And on top of that, if you're not using your voice and you actually believe in your message, you're stunting the growth of the people who might hear it.
Erin: Right, right. And sometimes you get called to a certain message or a certain thing to do in the world, you know? And that's like. That's where I'm at. It's, like, almost fucking evangelical at this point. Like, you know, where it's like, oh, my God, this stuff needs to be said. We need to talk about this. We need to talk about this. No one's talking about this.
Erin: You know? And so, you know, that's what gets me out of bed in the morning is like, how do we. How do we uncover all the bullshit, work our way through it, and then empower ourselves on the other side of it? Kim, I have asked everyone who has come on this podcast one question, and I will ask it to you spicy. Which is. It's not. I mean, it can be. But are there any deal terms in your life that you are ready to renegotiate? They can be tacit agreements, sort of unspoken agreements, or a way that you do things that you want to change, a dynamic that you want to change.
Kim: I think something I have been working on that. Well, it's like the idea of saying no is a deal term that I've, like, grown into, because, you know, I think you get to a certain point by making people like you and building collaboration and building support for each other. And sometimes you have to be like, well, actually, none of that works for me. And how do I do this other thing? Every no is a yes to something else. You know, everything. Every yes is a no to something else. So I think those are the sort of things for the deal terms. Like, a year ago, someone asked me to sit to have a volunteer position in a group that I actually feel I like.
And I was like, thank you, but no, I can't say yes to this right now. But I know that sounds silly, but that's kind of a big deal for some people like me. Yeah. So I think some of those are some of the deal terms. And then the other thing, I thought about what you were just saying about why you do things. Like my why was originally just, I want to still work and earn money doing what I'm good at and see my kids more. Like, that was basically it. But actually, what I found is once I started doing this, like, I have all these people that I've helped, who I coach through my video.
Like, I helped them grow their business through video, and I helped them be more confident on camera. What I've realized is it's not just about, like, making a video. It's like, transforming your mindset to believe that you have a voice and you should use your voice. Like, I'm like, oh, my God, that's what I'm meant to be doing. So I think by doing the thing, my why was really just to have a more balanced life. But then my why now is these clients I have, I'm so invested in what they're doing. I'm like, you're the best. I'm so excited about you.
And so I think my why has shifted into realizing I can actually change people's mindsets and change their confidence and change their financial situation. And that's, like, mind blowing and so, so fulfilling. It's so fulfilling. It's incredible. And I think now that I'm realizing the impact I can have on people, it's a much more fun and more robust. Why?
Erin: I love that. I love that. This has been a really interesting conversation, and I'm really grateful for your point of view and for your insights, and I'm just excited to know you.
Kim: Yeah, this is so fun.
Erin: Thank you, Kim.
Kim: Thank you.
Erin: Thanks for listening to Hotter Than Ever. If you have been enjoying this podcast, maybe you really related to this episode and you're thinking, this is super relevant to what my friend is going through, please share the episode and the show with that friend and welcome her into the conversation.
Hotter Than Ever is produced by Erika Gerard and Podkit Productions. Our associate producer is Melody Carey. Music is by Chris Keating with vocals by Issa Fernandez. I will see you next week.
Hotties in the meantime, check out the hotter than ever newsletter. Did you know that when you sign up for the newsletter at hotterthaneverpod.com dot I'm saying .com like a fucking old person. Hotter than ever pod the website on the Internets, you get a free article from me about how to kickstart your personal reinvention after divorce. I think this article is actually really useful for people who want to kickstart their personal reinvention in general, but you should read it yourself and share it with a friend who actually may be going through a divorce. I think it can be really helpful. It's packed with tips and prompts and of course, jokes. Let's not be too serious about all this midlife change, shall we?
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